OK, now, let's go forward in time. You were at UCLA and Muhammad Ali announces his opposition to the war in Vietnam. I'm wondering what you thought of it at that time.
Well, when Ali announced his refusal to accept the draft, I thought it was a very brave stand. I'd seen a number of people taking that stand, because while I was at UCLA, uh, the draft and a lot of issues around the Vietnam War became very prominent in everybody's lives, uh, people had to really seriously think about what it meant to be in the armed services and go fight in Vietnam. So, um, I knew it was a political stand. I knew he would take a lot of heat for it.