It's a good place to move to Gary and Gary is one of those moments for us of unity in a time of diversity, conflict. Can you give any sense of how diverse the elements were that people tried to get, why Gary was such a shining moment in a way.
Well, what I thought about Gary, ah, at that meeting called by, by Richard Hatcher was that for the first time in one place under one roof, almost every representation that the movement had, was gathered together at this convention. And, it was an enormously exciting experiment and an idea, could we come together, this diverse group? And in the absence of the glue that held it together previously, meaning Dr. King, meaning Malcolm X, in the absence of those leaders, ah, and particularly Dr. King, what would emerge out of this? Could there be a consensus? Could there be a, a conclusion arrived at that would give uniformity and give a sense of purpose? And that was not achieved.