AND AT THAT POINT OF 1965, DID YOU FEEL THAT THE CLOCK HAD GONE FORWARD OR [overlap] DID YOU SEE, DID YOU SEE THE TURMOIL OF THE 1960S?
Oh, there was no question but that the 1965—with the Civil Rights Act that it had moved forward. Personally, for example, when I was going to law school and to college, I think I knew about every black who was in college or in law school, across the country. And this had been a sort of a small group that had not grown very much from, I guess roughly 1900. But with in 1964 with the Civil Rights Act that group of people have just expanded so far that no one black can possibly know, as I did in my era, every black in every college. If you're a college student—know every black in the country that's in college, nobody, or law school—no one can do that now. And so it meant a great deal that the middle class, black middle class expanded. White collar jobs expanded for them, and the blacks that were not middle class but pushing upward into the middle class expanded rapidly, and that group is shrinking now but it's not going to be completely eliminated.