Tell me about the first time you went to Attica with a grandmother.
The first time I went to Attic was to take a grandmother out to see her grandson. She didn't have any transportation to go there and, ah, I was just sort of taken back and shocked at the massiveness of the institution, the large walls, all of the security, ah, and it was just sort of frightening and very, very intimidating when you first went in to the institution. And that was my first visit and that was in the late '60s. And, ah, as time went on I got more and more involved in the prison issues and what was happening to the inmates because the vast majority of them were African Americans.