In terms of the personalities and the influences in Ocean Hill-Brownsville, what, what are you beginning to see in the fall of '68?
Well the, the people who bega- who, I mean the, the two sides first of all were very clearly drawn which had not been the atmosphere in the year before. Ah, there were new people who, ah, had not been involved. Some of the people who were involved in the discussions were still around. But then there were new people who came into the situation who obviously had a different agenda, we thought, and it was a very, very painful, it was agonizing for the teachers. A lot of the teachers especially who had taught in, in that school district for many years and who were committed to the kids. And it was especially painful of course for Black teachers, and it was very painful for White teachers who had spent their careers, ah, in, in schools in, in Ocean Hill-Brownsville, and who really wanted, I believe, wanted the best for the kids.