Was there any point in that fall of '68 that you thought some sort of rapprochement, some sort of, some sort of peace could have been made between community and teachers, or was it to far by then?
No, there were, there were several times. There were lots of efforts being made, quiet efforts behind the scenes. I mean it was never difficult for example, for me to talk to Rhody McCoy. We had a, you know, a friendly relationship. And there were efforts that were being made, ah, I was making efforts to try to talk to people, but I know that there were efforts being made at other, you know, at other levels that I was not involved in. And there were times when it seemed that, you know, that maybe something could be done. But from my perspective what was most difficult in that situation was it didn't seem to be anybody in charge. I mean here was this, you know, terrible fight taking place, and there was no authority figure anywhere. No one at the Board of Education, no one at, you know, at, at City Hall seemed to be able to say, "Look, we're going to stop this. We're going to pull people together." There was no leadership there. And I think that was a major, major problem. That if there had been a leader, either in the school system, or in the city, who could work at pulling people together, I think people wanted to be pulled together. That was my sense of it. That this was not a conflict that was being enjoyed by the people involved in it. There may have been some people, who, you know, got off on it in some way. But most of the people involved in it wanted it to end, and it was very difficult to see how it could be ended without some overall, some over-arching, credible authority pulling it together and we just didn't have that.