Okay, so let's begin, in the mid-seventies you're an affirmative action student at Yale--

Okay, so, we're in the mid-nineteen seventies, you're an affirmative action student. I want you to tell me how you were perceived as such by faculty members, White students, other minority students.

Can we start over?

Okay, so let's begin with your telling me what it was like being an affirmative action student in the 1970's.

Okay. One of the big surprises for me, when I got to Yale Law School, was that I found that there was a difference in how students at Yale, faculty members at Yale, and for that matter, some administrators at Yale, related to Black students and other students of color; and, uh, this came as a great surprise to me, because it was a marked departure from what I'd been used to in college. Ah, in college I had, ah, worked very hard, and graduated number one in my department and looked very favorably upon going to Yale Law School. I had expected that what I'd find when I got there would be a superb student body, in general. But, also, in particular, that there'd be an excellent array of students of color there. And, when I got there, that's, in fact, what I found. What amazed me, however, was that the students of color were stigmatized in that environment. And, not only that, but, it seemed to me that there were a whole array of ideas that were connected to questions of affirmative action and questions of equality that really misconstrued. A whole lot of wrong-headed ideas, ah, seemed to be floating around the law school environment about what affirmative action was all about, and about how students of color fit into this whole process.