So do, uh, Blacks of your generation in college have any reason to feel ashamed of having gotten in through Affirmative Action?
Yeah, I think the, the answer to that question is that a definitive no. Ah, I think it's clearly the case that there's no reason for the beneficiaries of Affirmative Action programs to feel any shame or stigma whatsoever. In fact, in any sane society , ah, people of color, Blacks in particular, would, ah, receive these kinds of programs as a function of their constitutional right, not to have their, ah, human promise discriminated against by an array of criteria, ah, that's not adequate to the task of really ferreting it out. Ah, it does seem to me, if there's any shame for stigma to be associated with Affirmative Action whatsoever, that it belongs in another place, and where that place is, it seems to me clear. First of all, it belongs in, it belongs on the shoulders of the society writ large. Because it's a society, any society that creates a situation where you have the type of brutal racial oppression that existed in this country, that causes after centuries, ah, there to be a need for programs like Affirmative Action should be ashamed and ought to be stigmatized, ah, because of that especially if they consider themselves to be the leader of the free world, all about equal and opportunity for all people, not just here but across the planet. Moreover, it seems to me if any individuals ought to be stigmatized as a function of, of Affirmative Action programs, that of, of, Affirmative Action programs, that it ought to be those individuals who had benefited from the egregious victimization of people of color over the centuries and I would say that, ah, those people, ah, ah--