Going to that theory about turning a neighborhood from all-White to all-Black. Can you talk about the other interests that actually do contribute to turning a neighborhood, beyond real estate, business interests--
Ah, the major engineers of racial segregation in the sixties were, ah, the, the real estate industry and the mortgage finance industry. The mortgage fina- finance industry simply boycotted those areas which were Black, and they also, ah, refused to make loans to Blacks who moved into predominantly White blocks. And they even refused to rent, ah, make mort- mortgages to Whites who bought in a block in which a Black had already moved in. That was one aspect. But the major architects who were, ah, were the real estate brokers because we had two real estate markets--one for Blacks and one for Whites. What we were, were trying to achieve in city government was a single real estate market, one which catered to anybody who was shopping for housing and could afford to buy or rent. But with the dual housing market that we had the question always was: is this building in the Black market or is it in the White market? And, and the brokers all behaved that way. So did the Black brokers. The Black brokers, as well as the White brokers, helped engineer the transfer of a house from the White ma- housing market to the Black housing market. And that is the way in which the blocks went one by one from Black to White.