NOW AT WHAT POINT DID YOU THINK THAT, THAT, THAT THIS MIGHT BE IT, THAT YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY WIN THIS ONE? AFTER THE FIRST ARGUMENT? AFTER THE NEW CHIEF JUSTICE CAME? EVER?
Well, it was difficult for us to tell after the argument in late 1953, when we finally filed that main brief and had the argument in the Supreme Court, which way the court would go. After all, this, that the court was the first time in this century was dealing with this issue. And it was very difficult to figure out exactly how each justice would rule. Now when a case was argued in the Supreme Court, sometimes the lawyers involved could tell you after the argument exactly how the decision was going to come how based on the question asked by the judges. But it was not possible to do that in this case, because riding with this case was this tremendous uh, uh impact that it was going to have on the social history of this country.