OK, this is prior to the experiment. What expectations did teachers have about involvement in the administration of their schools in New York at that time?

I think the involvement of teachers, ah, from that period, was really quite minimal and, and they don't know that they expected much more. We just had a union for about six or seven years and bargaining rights, ah, in addition to that, teachers were very insular. Ah, each school was an entity on, into its, onto itself. Into? Wrong word.

OK, why don't you start that again. What expectations did teachers have for involvement?

Ah, they didn't have, the teachers didn't have a great deal of, ah, expectation for involvement, ah, the union had just been there for about five or six years, ah, they did expect some, ah, relationships with the administration regarding, ah, ah, number of preparations, teaching time, ah, in the individual school but between schools there was almost no connection. Ah, each, each school operated, more or less, as a unit.