Could you talk about, was there any relationship with the Nation of Islam and could you talk about your experiences with the Nation of Islam and how that affected the Ten Point Program, in shaping it?
Well, ah, early on I was, a, about in the early '60s, about 1960, 61 I had started, ah, Oakland City College. At Oakland City College I was a member, ah, instrumental in, in creating the Afro-American Association. The Afro-American Association was led by Donald Wharton. And, ah, the program was a cultural program to, ah, ah, to, ah, institute ethnic studies, African studies and Afro-American studies. Ah, from the Afro-American, the Afro-American Association, ah, ah, we created from, from, from the Afro-American Association, its, stemmed the Soul Student Advisory Council, and that was the action group inside of the school. After we created the, ah, the study classes, I felt that there was need to do other things, ah, to affect the wider community. And, ah, I became, ah, in contact, I, I came in contact with the Black Muslims. Ah, I was very impressed with Malcolm X. And, ah, Malcolm X' program, or the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, that, ah, Malcolm X followed, program was, ah, ah, it was like a Ten Point Program. Matter of fact, that, ah, our program was structured after the, ah, patterned after the Black Muslim program. It, ah, was minus the religion. And, ah, I think that I became disillusioned with the, with the, ah, Muslims after Malcolm X was assassinated. I think that I was following not, ah, Elijah Muhammad or the Muslims but Malcolm X himself.