Were you surprised when Arthur McDuffie was, ah, when you heard about Arthur McDuffie's beating at the hands of those cops in 1979?
Well, I, in one sense, I mean, you always are surprised by things like that because you want to hope for the best but, ah, having been there, having seen the kind of frenzy that almost occurs whenever there's a chase. You know, I've seen guys at the end of those chases in the past, get, pushed around real good. That was a extent that resulted in a death. So I guess that was a logical extension of what was going on because these things always ended with officers roughing up the suspect. I mean that has, that has happened historically in the Police Department. End of a chase, everybody's excited. When they seize the suspect, usually they go into some kind of, you see somebody's going to, is overreact minimally. So, it was not something not to be expected.