You guys knew each other all that time. You got to like one another, didn't you?
Quite a bit because we got to know each other. And, to that extent, I felt he was a mentor in that he could tell me a lot about the system. He came up in the Democratic party. He came up as a machine politician. He had been involved all of his adult life. That's all he did, was be a politician, that was his primary job. His other jobs were just ancillary to being a Democratic politician.