How, um, how did you think about William O'Neal at the time. How had he gotten involved and, and, and what were the feelings around the party about him?

Well, uh, there was mixed feelings around the party about him.

Can you use his name?

B--Yeah. About O'Neal. William O'Neal. Ah, he was--you know, we had, had mixed feelings about William O'Neal. He, um, was able to get close to the leadership of the party because of the fact that, you have to understand that the party was a group of young individuals who had very little resources. Ah, and, and in a lot of cases very little skills. He came in, had some skills, uh, had some resources, including a car. Okay? And because of, uh, sometimes when we needed to go places we'd just tell O'Neal, well you know, take us over here or take us there and that kind of thing. So he was able to get close to the leadership. Ah, he had some carpentry skills and so at the time, you know, we basically allowed him to, to get, to get close because he could do certain things. And, um--