Now originally when you came to the Union you were going to stay a month. You stayed five years. Why was it so special to you?
Well I came for a month because I wanted to know whether the things that I believed as a young Socialist were true, were possible, what it was really like. I think I probably, as a person, always wanted to be involved directly rather than simply to hear about it. While I was there, a month would have—I was just beginning to get the file set up by then. There were just—it was much more than a university could have given me in every way. I learned more about humanity, I learned more about economics, I learned more about writing. I got my first lesson in how to write a press release when I was there, and it's stood me in good stead the rest of my life. I met people that I will never forget, that I would never have met anywhere if I had not been there. The Negro preachers, all of these people who were wonderful. So I just wish my own children had the opportunity to do something of this kind.
Evelyn Smith Munro take three up.
Well perhaps of all of the, perhaps you might call them Yankee Outsiders, I'm sure there was no one who had as much influence and impact as Norman Thomas did. Among the inner circle of the organizers, Butler, who was President of the Union, Mitchell, Kester, Ward Rogers, myself, most of us had come to this point in our own lives because of the influence of Norman Thomas. He represented the kind of person and the kind of reforms that all of us believed in, and all of us believed in Norman. In fact when we sang "We Shall Not be Moved" sometimes at conventions we also sang "Norman Thomas is our leader. We shall not be moved." But Norman was known to most of the key organizers and certainly to all of the office staff. He did make several trips. It was a new experience for him to be treated rather roughly at times in the field, and was educational for him.
That's good. We're out of film. We're just going to change rolls.